Fox affiliate and Dearborn Imam try to trash Florida Pastor Terry Jones

(Video midpage)

It made me so, so angry to hear this Imam try to tell us who Jesus was and what Jesus stood for.  He said that Jesus was a 'great messenger' who only spoke of peace and love - and even told Pastor Jones that burning the Koran was an insult to Jesus!  This Imam doesn't have a clue!  He doesn't acknowledge that Jesus is both Messiah and God - so how is it he thinks he can define Jesus to a Christian pastor?

He asks Jones if he ever read the Koran.  Has the Imam ever read the Bible?

And then this other so-called pastor - Rev. Rowe - claims that the Bible is all about peace and doesn't have anything in it supports the burning of the Koran.  He said the "Bible" - (not "New Testament") - doesn't attack other religions.  But of COURSE IT DOES!  As Pastor Jones points out, the Bible has many, many instances of God - (Yahweh, Jehovah...also referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) destroying the icons, books and artifacts of the false religions. Even destroying towns and killing citizens who worshiped false Gods. (I am not saying lets go do that - just saying what the Bible recorded of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)

(Why does the Bible refer to God as being the God of these three?  It points out that while Ishmael started life worshiping the God of his father, Abraham, he and his descendents strayed and went a different direction)

The New Testament - as Jones points out - reports the Jesus overturned the money changing tables in the synagogue, as well as called disingenuous spiritual leaders 'vipers' and 'dogs.' Were these examples of peace?

So to try to say that the Bible doesn't come strongly against other, false religions is a lie.  And then this wolf in sheep's clothing - Rev. Rowe, claims there is a "Christian Taliban."  How can he even compare the two?  He says he doesn't defend violence anywhere, but by claiming conservative Christians are akin to the "Taliban" is very much a defense of the violent, cruel, cold, murdering Taliban.

Rev. Rowe, read the Book of James.  It is very clear that we LOVE others by telling the truth - and saving others from the real death - the permanent death and separation from the one true God, Jehovah.

Jones made a very good point that all he did was burn a book - and 7000 miles away, people killed each other over it.  He is correct that the responsibility for those deaths is with the rioters and their government.

I was actually very impressed that Pastor Jones was able to stand up against this "panel" of people on this interview, a panel clearly stacked against him, and be able to calmly refute their lies. Personally, I would have blown a gasket. He did quite well in bringing the discussion back to the point every time they attempted to blow it up in a different direction. He didn't bother to get into angrily confronting their lies - which I would have been led to do. Awesome. I applaud him.

Controversial Florida Pastor Terry Jones Goes Face-to-Face with Dearborn Imam: MyFoxDETROIT.com

One person commented about the video and implied that Christians don't love their Holy Book and that is why they don't get upset by the burning of it as Muslims do.  Excuse me?  This is another complete misunderstanding of God and his divinity!  We don't worship paper or books. We worship Jehovah - Yahweh - the God of Israel - and His Word and Truth will live on no matter what anyone does to the Bible.

The rocks cry out God's Truth, even if people don't listen. You can't destroy it. So do whatever you want to the Bible - it makes no difference.

See - what must be recognized is that Jesus spoke more than just 'wise words!" He spoke God's Truth - in fact, Jesus WAS the Word...

- John 1 " 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

And you couldn't destroy Jesus - no matter what was tried. He lives today.   You can not destroy the Word!   So go ahead - do whatever to the Bible. It makes no difference.  Our God is greater than a book.

Another person commented that because Jones leads an independent church, it isn't a "real" church, like a main stream church.  How foolish!

The True Christian Church is not a building or any specific congregation. The True Christian Church is the People who truly Believe, Honor, Worship, Respect, Love, Trust and Obey the Lord God Jehovah, in the person of the Trinity; Father, Son (Jesus) and Holy Ghost.

Those people can be found in many different church buildings and denominations, including independent Christian churches. Most churches are a mixture of true believers and non-believers - the non-believers being there for reasons other than sincere faith (which can be one or more of many varied reasons). Some churches have no real believers. Others have only a few. Some churches are Blessed with many true Believers. It is a wonderful, wonderful experience when one can attend such a church. This can happen in an independent church just as well as a mainline churches. But unfortunately, not all mainline churches are Blessed with a majority of True Believers.

Not all True Believers have the exact same understanding of every point in the Bible. They might differ slightly on doctrinal issues. However, what they share is a True Love for the Lord, and they are open to correction and continuous learning as the strive to grow more and more in the Lord.

Then to have this so-called Rev. Rowe say that he doesn't believe in the same God as Pastor Jones - that is probably very true...

Only God can judge a heart, but personally, I do believe Terry Jones might be a True Believer. His quest for truth has a sincerity to it.  Further, he didn't respond in anger to the clear attack by this "panel."

However, I question the heart of the other pastor, who said that no where in the Bible does God come against other religions. That is simply not true. God came against other religions very strongly.

The other pastor surprised me by saying that his God is not the same as Jones' God.  Wow.  We are to be discerning and watch the fruit of our leaders to tell if they are wolves or not.  But if we are questioning a brother's motives, especially one in leadership, Matthew 18:15-17 and James 5:19 are clear as to how proceed wit Love.  Is this Rowe truly concerned with Love and Peace between brothers, or only between Christianity and Islam?

I would have hoped Rev. Rowe would see Pastor Jones as a Brother in the Lord, and if Pastor Jones is missing some Truth, I would have hoped he would have been led by love - and an understanding of the full family of God - to help Jones and give right teaching with respect.

But that didn't appear to be the stand he was taking. That leads me to mistrust and question his sincerity in Jesus Christ.

Video from FoxDetroit.com - 
Updated: Friday, 22 Apr 2011, 6:17 AM EDT Published : Thursday, 21 Apr 2011, 10:06 PM EDT

Is God in Control?

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On facebook, a friend wrote:

"fear believes the worst is going to happen... faith believes the best is already on its way"

Someone responded:

When your perspective is telling you it's the worst, that's when you need your faith to rise. Faith is always needed if we're going to achieve what we're called to. Faith allows us to do good despite our less than ideal circumstances because we see what is available to us through Christ.

I still don't believe that God is in control. I'll believe otherwise if you can show me in scripture that he is. In the mean time I choose whether or not I get out of bed in the morning. I choose whether to use my words to encourage others or tear them down. I'm pretty sure God has given me a great deal of control over what happens in and around me.

If he were in control there would be no point in us doing anything because God would be taking care of it, there would be no point in relationship with God because we wouldn't be expected to do anything (there's the issue: saying God is in control releases us from any responsibility to bring his kingdom to earth).

If God were in control, would there be all the problems there are in the world? Saying God is in control is saying he is not good and that is a fallacy.

Yes, God is all powerful and could take control, but if he did then what would be the point in existing? You have a greater purpose. Start walking in it!

FYI: I can't take credit for a lot of this. Much of it is just reiterating what Bill Johnson says in Face to Face with God

Then there was this response:

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Very good points - but here's a question. If God ISN'T in control, then does that mean His plan might fail - and what is fore-told in Revelations might not happen? Aren't we assured that in the end, God will defeat the enemy?

Romans 8:28 tells us, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose."
Other ways that is read include, "that all things work together for good to those who love God, who;" or
"that in all things God works together with those who love him to bring about what is good—with those who."

Note: this assurance is predicated to those that Love God, and this last version of the verse makes it clearer that we are working with Him to bring about good. Our relationship with Him comes with the expectation of participating in His work. (and striving to not hurt others)

God, as you said, is capable of controlling everything, but allows man free will. Maybe this is all about the big picture - not the small,( re: daily free will choices - getting up from bed, or deciding to commit a crime, etc.) The big picture is our unbreakable relationship and life with God - if we choose it.

If Hell is separation from God - we are assured we will never be separated, and He is working with us through all things for good in that direction. Rom 8:39 "neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Some of "those that Love Him" and have purposed to work for Him abbreviate that thought - rightly I think - into our assurance that "God is in control."

And you are right - Faith is needed if we're going to achieve what we are called to.


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I need to address the thought that if God is in Control, there is no point for relationship -

Relationship with God, as pointed out in Romans 8:28, involves Him working with us, through us, etc. - to bring about His will and good -
that's what the Holy Spirit is all about.

We choose relationship with Jesus Christ. There is our free will. But God IS the Master when we do that - he is our LORD - and we are His servants. Therefore, He IS in control.

There is No relationship without accepting His Lordship!

Further, we can NOT do good on our own - we need the Holy Spirit. According to Romans 6, we die - our flesh dies with Jesus Christ - and then we are raised up again new with Jesus Christ - (just as He was raised up again) - to live a New Life, with Him.

Rom 6:22 "But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life."

This is the Relationship: we can do nothing without Christ (God/Holy Spirit) in Us:
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. [For when we abide in Him -- and He in us -- He shows us His will and that's all we long for!]
"By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." John 15:3-10

Abiding in Him, and He in us - involves letting go of ourselves, and allowing Him - in control - to work through us.

So I think Mr. Johnson, in his book 'Face to Face with God," was very wrong about there being no point to relationship if God is in Control. It's reversed - there would be no point to relationship if he WASN'T in control -

"Why Does God allow Suffering?"

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I recently shared with my sister a blog my pastor had written concerning God and the suffering in this world.

I was excited about this blog because my sister had told me just two weeks earlier that she can not honor or follow a God that allows innocent children to suffer horribly.

You know the debate… “How can God be all powerful and loving, yet allow the horrors of disease, war, famine, and natural disasters?” If “God is good all the time” – as the song says…then how come there is so much suffering in this world?

In response, Pastor quoted verses from Job that expressed Job would rather die than continue suffering;

“Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure, who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave? Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in?” (Job 3:20-23)

Pastor brought up a great point. He said,

“…we must remember where suffering came from. It actually came from us. When humanity rebelled against God and chose to rule the world in our own wisdom apart from God, the earth and our labors were cursed. …under man’s care apart from God…Weeds began to grow and choke out nutritious plants. Viruses and bacteria mutated into harmful diseases. People no longer provided themselves with the proper nutrition and habits that promoted optimal health. Jealousy and carnal appetites drove humanity to murder, rape, slavery and host of other cruel sins. Earth itself began to quake and unleash cataclysmic disasters upon man.

“Humanity’s choice to call the shots and be like God has had horrendous effects …ever since. If we want to understand suffering, then we must understand that …Humanity brought on its own suffering through our rebellion against God, which started in the Garden of Eden.”

Pastor summed that up suggesting “Perhaps God allows suffering to emphasize the horror of sin and our desperate need of Him. Maybe that’s one reason God allows suffering.”

Great point. Man made a decision to be independent, run his own life outside of God's direction and guidance. As a result, without a recognized higher power to look up to - or submit to - Man starts in with all those human things - trying to be top dog over each other, etc.

So in deciding to rebel, Man brought in sin and all that comes with it. In greed, pride, self-indulgence... Man’s desire to be a top dog over everyone else means that innocent people will get hurt.

God wants better for us, but he gave us Free will, even though that Free will pains him to watch

The next point Pastor brought up was even better. We are asking why God allows children to suffer horribly, or any innocent for that matter.

Yet Jesus, his son – an innocent whom he could have intervened for - suffered horribly before his death. Jesus - who actually told God the Father in the garden that he really didn't want to do this.

God so loved the World that he sent his only Son....

Jesus’ purpose from the very beginning was to be our sacrificial lamb, the only way through which we could reconcile with the father and come back into relationship with Him. Jesus died for our sins.

But along with being the promised sacrificial lamb, was Jesus' horrible death - Jesus who was completely innocent of sin - meant to show us that God the Father, who loves us so much and hates to see our suffering…was willing to ...partake in the suffering with us? To cry with us?

Did Jesus come in the flesh and die suffering as he did - as a way to show us that God is walking with us in the pain, knows how it feels, and that He is suffering with us?

In other words, suffering is all about our own sin….a progressive result of ignoring God's guidance. The children are suffering as a direct result of human rejection of God and His wisdom…they are suffering because of our selfishness and lack of compassion for each other. Not God’s.

Is it not about God allowing suffering, but about God allowing Man Free Will?

My sister shot the explanation down with one crisp sentence;

“So if God has a non-interference policy, then having a God is exactly the same as not having a God.”

But... it's not a non-interference policy. Jesus healed much suffering. But she's right in that...for some, the suffering continues despite much prayer.

Sigh.  Okay…so Part II coming up…”Why God answers some prayers to alleviate suffering, and not others?
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Shush and Obey

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I was tired of arguing with one of the kids today, and when it was over and he had finally gone to bed, I wondered again if I did right.

See - I was so tired of arguing.  Always an arguement from this particular child. So I told the person just to go to bed. I'm done. I don't want to argue. Go to bed.  I had to say it more than a few times. Finally, he went, but only because I'd threatened to ground him.

After everything quieted and I was by myself again, frustrated, I went back to what I had been doing in my office. I resumed my tasks at the computer, but all the while, still thinking about what just happened.

And then I saw a tweet by Randy Alcorn -

"Job stops arguing with God.  Job 42:2-6. It is when he surrenders to God that he finds comfort."

Ok. I had to look that up. What is Job 42: 1-6?

1 Then Job replied to the LORD :
2 'I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, "Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?" Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.
4 You said, "Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me."
5 My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.'

This is what struck me immediately...

After years of having to maintain total control while my husband was drinking, I worked at letting go, shushing up, and letting God guide my husband's decisions after we became Christians. During this period of time, I even wore a scarf. - not for legalistic reasons - but to remind myself to back off and be quiet and listen to what my husband had to say.

It was hard!  Hard for me to let go of the reins, but also, surprisingly, hard for my husband to pick them up and take control. For a little while there, he actually got mad at me if I wouldn't say what we should do next. So one of the pastors told me to give Roland options, discuss the issue, but then still back off from the final decision. (Kind of a tight rope)

And of course my husband made mistakes. Kind of like a child learning to walk. One of his first major decisions was the phones for our Medicab - and he signed us into a terrible contract.  But we all make mistakes. Making the correct decision all the time wasn't the point. The point was for me to rest and let him do it - and trust God, not necessarily him.  In other words, if my husband made a mistake,  it was okay, because I was trusting God to make things work in the long run.

Anyway, my stepping back and his stepping forward helped us both, and we grew.  Neither of us were perfect, but we did get to a point where we were both much better. We were also much more comfortable with things this way. I really did find myself enjoying that certain things were no longer 'my' problem and stepped back with relief that I didn't have to worry about certain issues anymore.

Which is, I think, what I was trying to express to some of kids when they were teenagers; telling them to just tell friends at school that certain decisions were out of their hands. Tell them that their mother was a mean decision maker, and that I would kill them if they tried drugs or alcohol. I had hoped my kids would find comfort in not having to make certain decisions - kind of like I had found comfort in letting someone else be in control. "See," I told them, "the decision has already been made - you aren't allowed to do what they were asking you to do.  You can rest in that decision"

Unfortunately, it didn't work. Most of my older kids didn't embrace that teaching. Maybe it was in the delivery. 

Anyway, so I've been trying to teach some of the younger kids with an even simpler - maybe gentler - certainly more tired - version of that concept. 

"Let me be the boss.  Let go.  Simply quit arguing and do as I ask. Really. Things are a lot easier that way. For everyone. Yup."

In some ways, it's getting through a little better. Perhaps more because the younger can see the troubles older siblings had gotten into and know that if 'such and such' rules had simply been listened to, those sibs wouldn't have gotten into those troubles. At any rate, motivation aside, the younger ones seem to be listening a little better.
Sure, I will make mistakes, too, just as we all do.  But in the big picture, it doesn't matter.  Does it matter today that my husband, who passed away 6-years ago, put us into a bad contract 17-years ago?  No. No one but me even remembers the contract, and it is totally irrelevant to me or to anything happening today. 

However, the big picture - that he and I had eventually learned to work together as a cooperating team - matters a great deal.  It matters to my heart, and it matters to my kids.  The big picture is that he is no longer with us, but our good memories, the lessons we learned together, and our love for him will last forever.

And my older ones, having gone through their grief, are starting to see and understand that, especially now that some of them are raising kids.

So back to that lesson from Job; there's a lot of good for us all to learn in it. It refers to God and our submission to Him, but can also teach us about getting comfort from simply listening to - and obeying - any of our authorities. (as long as the authorities aren't telling you to break God's laws)

In our society, we already know we aren't ever to argue with the police. Or with a judge. These are 'given's that most of us easily accept.  And we aren't to argue with or disrespect our military commander, no matter what an idiot he might be, as General McChrystal recently reminded us.  Submitting to the concept of obeying those in authority is a real expectation in our society, and most of us rarely question it.

And arguing with our boss isn't always bright. (although I've done it in my youth) (and lost jobs because of it)
Simply dong as our domineering boss asks, even if is stupid, makes life simpler. (as long as everyone knows it was the boss who demanded that it be done in a stupid way.)  Most of us understand this about authority.

Except when it comes to parents.  In the last 60 years, the expectation that parents be obeyed has been erroded. Strict parents are seen as "controlling," and assumed to be "abusive."  This has been brought on by an intrusive school system as well as television and movies, where teens and even pre-teens are lauded for their sass and rebellion. Parents, teachers and school principals are often portrayed as idiots with whom the children must endure.  Although I like Will Smith a lot now, I never used to let my kids watch "the Fresh Prince of Bel Air" because the attitude toward those in authority was so nasty.  The movie "Home Alone" is another example were parents were shamelessly ridiculed and disregarded.  And those are just a couple examples. The televsion and movie industry is full of matrial that disregards parents.

We have learned to disrespect the authority of parents, and I say "we" because I was raised within the last 60 years, as well. I was a teen in the 70's, when disregarding parents (and bosses we thought were stupid) had already become a norm.  Sass was an art form - one with which you could get lots of good attention from friends for. (believe me, I got good attention for my sass)

Further, when I began raising my kids, I had no confidence in my own authority.  If my older children disagreed with me, I actually believed that I should factor that into my final decision.  I confess that I needed to be stronger about making decisions and sticking to them no matter how my kids wheedled.
Now, toward the end of my child raising days, I'm finally getting the hang of it.
Kids need to know "No more arguing. Just do it."   Yup.

And for me - teaching my kids to simply 'shush and obey' IS my job in obeying my God, who commanded me in Deut. 6 to teach my kids everything there is to know about Him and all His expectations. Teaching my children about authority - most importantly, HIS authority - is MY act of shushing and obeying my God... who commanded me.

Submitting to earthly authorities can be a way to learn how to submit to God.  Kind of like - if we can simply listen to, trust and obey the flesh and blood parent screaming lunatic standing in our living room, then maybe we can understand how to submit to, trust and obey our much quieter, comforting, and always correct God.

And that's all I really wanted from this child tonight. Just to - shush - listen, and obey. That's all. 

Really parents - it's okay to want and receive that. In fact, it's our job.